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crissew
Forum Full Member


Registered: 07/19/09
Posts: 1079
Location: , NC United States
 
Re:Brace for Impact
Thursday, August 24 2017 @ 02:47 PM CDT

I voted for Hillary (reluctantly) but this discussion looks to me to be nothing but a partisan discussion by many of the people commenting.

Trump is an idiot in some ways. I freely admit that. He shoots his mouth off without thinking about it first. He doesn't strategically plan out his PR moves and frequestly makes social media comments that are ill advised but to call him a racist, Russian collaborator or fascist which seems to be the primary accusations against him at this point is dishonest and shows a willingness to throw the office of the president under the bus.

The US has come to a point where many people seem to be incapable of tolerating opposing viewpoints. Instead of looking at what is best for the country in the long term, they instead choose to engage in dishonest rhetoric to destroy political opposition. Rather than arguing their position logically, the favored approach has become to attack with a incendiary label. Racist, sexist, homophobe, misogynist, fascist, dictator etc has become the primary argument in public discourse. It is just sad.

Answer me this... what real justification is there for the Trump Russia accusations? Give me the hard evidence of collusion. I will save you time... there IS NONE. Yet the dog and pony show keeps going month after month, just so it can undermine Trump. i am coming from the point of view that doesn't want Trump to succeed in much of what he wants to do but the fact still remains.
chikoppi
Forum Full Member


Registered: 04/02/04
Posts: 1966
Location: N/A
 
Re:Brace for Impact
Thursday, August 24 2017 @ 03:44 PM CDT


It is illegal under federal law to solicit or accept a campaign contribution from a foreign national or foreign government.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/11/110.20

(b)Contributions and donations by foreign nationals in connection with elections. A foreign national shall not, directly or indirectly, make a contribution or a donation of money or other thing of value, or expressly or impliedly promise to make a contribution or a donation, in connection with any Federal, State, or local election.

(g)Solicitation, acceptance, or receipt of contributions and donations from foreign nationals. No person shall knowingly solicit, accept, or receive from a foreign national any contribution or donation prohibited by paragraphs (b) through (d) of this section.


Here is the email chain setting-up the meeting between the Trump campaign and Russian representatives.

http://www.npr.org/2017/07/11/536670194/donald-trump-jr-s-emails-about-meeting-with-russian-lawyer-annotated

Goldstone to Trump Jr., June 3, 2016:

The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father.

This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump – helped along by Aras and Emin.


Here is one of the individuals present at that meeting.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/21/us/rinat-akhmetshin-russia-trump-meeting.html

That is only one line of evidence among several under investigation by special counsel Mueller. Here is some additional context.

http://www.newsweek.com/20-key-questions-muellers-russia-investigation-trump-must-answer-654134

What would "hard evidence" be and how would it be obtained if not by process of an independent investigation (especially given the repeated omissions and false representations by those under investigation that have already been discovered)?


“Ya, that idea is dildos.” Skwisgaar Skwigelf
GET SONG FEEDBACK --> MacJams Critics Circles
MikeRobinson
Forum Full Member


Registered: 08/29/11
Posts: 717
Location: Chattanooga, TN United States
 
Re:Brace for Impact
Thursday, August 24 2017 @ 04:13 PM CDT

Respectfully, Chikoppi, you and maybe others see this as “a war to preserve slavery,” and you think that agricultural slavery in this country has in fact been abolished.   You think that a proper solution is to remove public monuments which, in your view, “memorialize the preservation of slavery” and were “Jim Crow” symbols of public intimidation addressed at black people.   I feel that these representations are inaccurate, and that they typecast both the people who established these memorials and their reasons for doing so.

If we were to seek to sponge-away the history of slavery in our country, we will need to dig much deeper.   For instance, George Washington owned slaves, so we must remove al portraits of this reprehensible man from our Dollar Bill, and from every public place and classroom, and we should close and remove the Washington Monument becaue it memorializes a slave-owner.   Then we must do the same for Thomas Jefferson, Andrew Jackson, and U. S. Grant.   Maybe Abraham Lincoln, too, because after all he was the US President during that reprehensible war.   I think that you see my point.   No good can come from this pointless and divisive course of action, but three people died because of it in Charlottesville.   You cannot redact history.   Your present day sensibilities might not agree with what was the reality a hundred fifty years ago, and you might wish to focus upon one of the myriad reasons why the most terrible of all American wars was fought at the exclusion of all others.   But I think that history is something that must be respected and preserved even when it is ugly.

The Jews who survived the Holocaust never demanded that Auschwitz be removed from the planet:   they caused it to be preserved, so that mankind might never forget what happened there.   We built monuments to people who died in the African-American civil rights struggle, so that no one will forget the fact that they died.   If we strove to memorialize only the things in our history that were pretty, the Washington Mall would have no stone in it at all.   Over 700,000 people perished in a War that must never be forgot:   the most-costly War in the history of our nation.   The times were as they were.   The decision to build monuments to people’s memory was not an act of hate.   But the decision to remove them, just might be seen that way.   We don’t need to be sowing seeds of discord right now, for any motivation.

And so, so that other musicians will not “die just a little bit” again, I will close with this comment, on your final.
mr_mordenus
Forum Full Member


Registered: 06/04/07
Posts: 383
Location: Plasticville,
 
Re:Brace for Impact
Thursday, August 24 2017 @ 05:09 PM CDT

Quote by: MikeRobinson
The Jews who survived the Holocaust never demanded that Auschwitz be removed from the planet:   they caused it to be preserved, so that mankind might never forget what happened there.  



What? WHAT?? You're drawing a parallel between the preservation of Auschwitz and the preservation of Confederate statues? I usually sit this shit out but I just can't believe I actually read that.

Mike, Auschwitz was not preserved as an honorary marker of something grand or noble or honorable. Do you get that? Do you seriously GET that? Auschwitz stands as a warning that a modern, industrialized and Christian nation mobilized the machinery of efficiency and technology to murder millions of people. They used railways. They built, and bidded contracts for the most efficient gas chambers. Because the state wanted those people gone. The warning is that it happened to us; it can happen to you. This is what it is. Look upon it and feel uncomfortable, feel uneasy. Feel a real, quiet dread. Because this was a country of technology and power that decided people it didn't like could be exterminated, and then went about doing it.

Confederate statues were built to honor the leaders they depicted. Not one was EVER built to say, don't ever do what this guy did. Ever.

It's that simple. I can't believe you made that parallel. You didn't 'kill a little bit of me' with that. You scared the living shit out of me.
chikoppi
Forum Full Member


Registered: 04/02/04
Posts: 1966
Location: N/A
 
Re:Brace for Impact
Thursday, August 24 2017 @ 05:33 PM CDT

Quote by: MikeRobinson
Respectfully, Chikoppi, you and maybe others see this as “a war to preserve slavery,” and you think that agricultural slavery in this country has in fact been abolished. You think that a proper solution is to remove public monuments which, in your view, “memorialize the preservation of slavery” and were “Jim Crow” symbols of public intimidation addressed at black people. I feel that these representations are inaccurate, and that they typecast both the people who established these memorials and their reasons for doing so.


First off, no. I do not want to ignore or suppress the history of slavery. I expressly pointed out that I believed monuments celebrating triumphs against slavery or memorializing the impact of the Civil War on local communities were appropriate public symbols.

What I opposed were civic monuments in prominent public venues celebrating individuals, specifically Confederate leaders, who led a rebellion in support of the institution of slavery.

This isn't merely a sentiment of mine and "maybe others." Well before Charlottesville cities like New Orleans, Baltimore, San Diego, Lousiville, and others had begun removing monuments to Confederate leaders.

In Gainsville the United Daughters of the Confederacy paid to have a statue removed from its location in front of the county administration building. Do they not properly understand their heritage?

Second, what is this baseless non-sequitur: "you think that agricultural slavery in this country has in fact been abolished." Please explain 1) where I said any such thing, 2) how a monument in front of a courthouse lionizing Jefferson Davis contributes to mitigating the plight of agricultural workers.

Quote by: MikeRobinson
If we were to seek to sponge-away the history of slavery in our country, we will need to dig much deeper.   For instance, George Washington owned slaves, so we must remove al portraits of this reprehensible man from our Dollar Bill, and from every public place and classroom, and we should close and remove the Washington Monument becaue it memorializes a slave-owner.   Then we must do the same for Thomas Jefferson, Andrew Jackson, and U. S. Grant.   Maybe Abraham Lincoln, too, because after all he was the US President during that reprehensible war.   I think that you see my point.   No good can come from this pointless and divisive course of action, but three people died because of it in Charlottesville.   You cannot redact history.   Your present day sensibilities might not agree with what was the reality a hundred fifty years ago, and you might wish to focus upon one of the myriad reasons why the most terrible of all American wars was fought at the exclusion of all others.   But I think that history is something that must be respected and preserved even when it is ugly.


Preserved, yes. Celebrated, no. Remove from places of veneration monuments to those individuals who led armed insurrection to preserve the institution of slavery at a time when the nation took a stand against it. Place them in museums. These are not symbols of pride for those who were victims, but symbols of continued oppression. Replace them with monuments that honor Southern history in a manner that celebrates the triumph and sacrifice of all those who endured and suffered instead. Heck, replace them with ten times as many monuments.

Quote by: MikeRobinson
The Jews who survived the Holocaust never demanded that Auschwitz be removed from the planet:   they caused it to be preserved, so that mankind might never forget what happened there.   We built monuments to people who died in the African-American civil rights struggle, so that no one will forget the fact that they died.   If we strove to memorialize only the things in our history that were pretty, the Washington Mall would have no stone in it at all.   Over 700,000 people perished in a War that must never be forgot:   the most-costly War in the history of our nation.   The times were as they were.   The decision to build monuments to people’s memory was not an act of hate.   But the decision to remove them, just might be seen that way.


If you are comparing the preservation of Auschwitz to a heroic monument to Stonewall Jackson erected in the center of the town square you are sorely missing the point.

Quote by: MikeRobinson
We don’t need to be sowing seeds of discord right now, for any motivation.


It's never the right time to talk about the impact of racism in America. It's never the right time to acknowledge the institutions of racism or the impact it has those who continue bear the weight. It's never the right time to ask the majority to acquiesce or be inconvenienced.

Well, when Nazis and supremacists rally around a monument to a Confederate leader in an American city, chanting slogans and slurs and waving torches, I think it's well past time to acknowledge, discuss, and confront the issue.

“Ya, that idea is dildos.” Skwisgaar Skwigelf
GET SONG FEEDBACK --> MacJams Critics Circles
Charday
Forum Chatty


Registered: 07/10/12
Posts: 38
Location: , United States
 
Re:Brace for Impact
Thursday, August 24 2017 @ 07:39 PM CDT

LOL, just popped din to see what is the latest flame war on macjams because lord knows the music sucks. Still the same old bullshit flame wars trying to argue opinions like they are facts, foregone conclusions are not facts just because a group of people have arbitrarily decided so.
The Democratic party was hijacked, the Republican party stood by fat and happy while extremists infiltrated our day care centers all the way up through colleges teaching their views as facts. They also dominate almost all social media because they are more motivated.
Say whatever you will but Trump rescued this country from extremists and righted the ship. He single handedly took down and completely exposed the hypocrisy of "the left". And continues to do so, I don't like him personally but thank God he stopped the PC madness and rescued the Republican party from the brink of disaster. BY every measurable factual indicator he stopped the decline of this nation on a dime and turned it around 180 and we are flourishing you fucking libtards!
Charday
Forum Chatty


Registered: 07/10/12
Posts: 38
Location: , United States
 
Re:Brace for Impact
Thursday, August 24 2017 @ 07:39 PM CDT

ooops posted twice.
ktb
Forum Full Member


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 435
Location: Boston, MA
 
Re:Brace for Impact
Thursday, August 24 2017 @ 11:39 PM CDT

Quote by: MikeRobinson

And so, so that other musicians will not “die just a little bit” again, I will close with this comment, on your final.



Mike, don't worry about me - I am dead and buried.
MikeRobinson
Forum Full Member


Registered: 08/29/11
Posts: 717
Location: Chattanooga, TN United States
 
When you uncork this bottle ...
Friday, August 25 2017 @ 08:22 AM CDT

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/25/us/monuments-confederacy-remove-rename.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Fpolitics

It began with calls to remove Confederate generals.

But since the violence in Charlottesville, Va., two weeks ago, the anger from the left over monuments and public images deemed racist, insensitive or inappropriate has quickly spread to statues of Christopher Columbus, the former Philadelphia tough cop Mayor Frank Rizzo, Boston’s landmark Faneuil Hall, a popular Chicago thoroughfare and even Maryland’s state song.   An Asian-American sportscaster named Robert Lee was pulled from broadcasting a University of Virginia football game so as not to offend viewers.

The disputes over America’s racial past and public symbols have proliferated with dizzying speed, spreading to states far beyond the Confederacy and inspiring campaigns by minorities and political progressives across the country.   But along the way, they have become to some an example of politically correct sentiments gone too far [...]

As I said, “nothing good can come of this.”
 
particledots
Forum Full Member


Registered: 05/25/09
Posts: 1528
Location: , United States
 
Re:Brace for Impact
Friday, August 25 2017 @ 08:48 AM CDT

Quote by: Daugrin


Nothing unusual happened. Maybe you could relax a little? In deference to your stern, heart felt warning, please keep all informed if ya feel something hit.

Daug



http://www.npr.org/2017/08/25/545907553/with-trump-white-house-are-ethics-issues-becoming-just-part-of-the-scenery