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ktb
Forum Full Member


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 429
Location: Boston, MA
 
Re:What Does Any of It Mean Anymore
Monday, July 10 2017 @ 08:25 AM CDT

Quote by: chikoppi

https://stevenpinker.com/publications/better-angels-our-nature



Wow...Reading it now. Incredibly dense, but it does make me feel we're moving in the right direction. Thank you again, for all your calm, informative and reasoned comments in the forums.

With respect to the Fed, don't they charge the banks interest to loan them this "free money"? If that is true it is an amazing scam.
bronco
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Registered: 05/31/04
Posts: 547
Location: N/A
 
Re:What Does Any of It Mean Anymore
Monday, July 10 2017 @ 12:28 PM CDT

To answer kdb, yes the Fed does charge interest to "loan" other banks. Of course, then the other banks turn around and loan out .9 for every dollar they have on deposit. This is fractional banking where the bank can essentially loan out ten times as much money as they have on deposit although regulations make it a little more complicated than that. This why a run on the bank such as in the film "It's A Wonderful Life" can easily push a bank under because they never have enough deposits to cover all of their loans. Any combination of bad loans that can't be collected because of bankruptcy or depositers that withdraw their money as cash can cause this.

So now we have a war against cash. The banks want to outlaw it and actually have now in parts of Europe where you can't pay for anything with paper currency. There are many cases now where the police in the US have confiscated large amounts of cash found on traffic stops without any proof that it was gained illegally. No arrests are made, no convictions sought or made and yet the individuals have to spend a fortune going through the court system to try and get it back.

If this does not violate the US Constitution's ban on illegal search and seizures, then what does?
bronco
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Registered: 05/31/04
Posts: 547
Location: N/A
 
Re:What Does Any of It Mean Anymore
Monday, July 10 2017 @ 12:46 PM CDT

Chikoppi, you keep putting words in my mouth. I never said the Fed was the reason for the wage inequality. I simply pointed out that if you didn't get raises to coincide with an expansion of the money supply, then your purchasing power was being decreased.

I probably think we can agree that we don't like the "trickle down" method of stimulating the economy where all the money is fed in the top end and then through various financial transactions is suppose to work it's way down to the good ole, almost extinct middle class. The poor get taken care of by the government and charity but no such thing exists for the "working poor". I am retired, make less than $30,000 a year but the government taxes me on about a third of my social security. I actually think that is ok and don't mind paying taxes to maintain a stable country but when you see the enormous waste and out right theft with very few problems being solved, well . . . then I start to write.

Who is going to report the transactions you refer to. The news media owned by the corporations, who are owned by roughly the same people as benefit from these transactions?
And yes there are at least scandals that have arisen recently where the big banks have been caught manipulating gold, silver and commodity markets. Then the usual thing has been to slap their hands, fine them an amount of money that never equals the illegal gain they have made and it is business as usual.
MikeRobinson
Forum Full Member


Registered: 08/29/11
Posts: 662
Location: Chattanooga, TN United States
 
Re:What Does Any of It Mean Anymore
Monday, July 10 2017 @ 01:47 PM CDT

I certainly do agree that the US Government is abusing its “privileges of seignorage” to its ultimate disadvantage ... “printing” multiple millions of US Dollars every minute in order to Buy Things for Itself.™

However, I don’t think that “this alone, ipso facto,” will ever actually result in some form of catastrophic melt-down, because, hell, let’s face it, lots of other Governments are doing very similar things, and have been doing it for decades.   All of these parties are acting with full awareness of one another.

What I do expect, however, is that the current-generation Nations of the World will be much less tolerant of these things, as the world’s trade-situation becomes increasingly unbalanced because of it.   Other nations will not continue to be content to settle their differences in the purely-abstract, purely-computerized world of a Currency Trading Floor.   They’re going to be asking, “where’s the beef?”   And, rightfully so.

No matter what the “currency units” may say, it really does (IMHO) all come down to trade.   And, trade consists of things which each partner must produce.   They must in fact be partners, and they must in fact produce.   The days of “race to the bottom” trade (sic) agreements are, I think, about to come to a sudden and decisive end.   (The nascent breakup of the EU being the first example.)   The United States of America, in particular, has been feasting at the world’s diner on its leftover magic from World War II, but let’s face it:   nearly all of the people who actually remember that war, as anything other than children, are now dead.

What’s the one-and-only (IMHO) global trade strategy that actually works?   I think, “<<my_country>> first!”   Adoption of this principle will of course mean that many proposed trade agreements are never entered into ... but also that the now-very-few that are, will be well worth doing.   They will be the ones that actually strengthen(!) the citizens(!) of both nations at the same time – not just the shareholders of one particular company which profess to owe allegiance to no nation on Earth at all.

Just as the British finally realized that “Britain really does matter, if only to Britons,” it just might be that the United States of America is just about to re-discover that We Can Do It!™   In which case:   “Hang on to your hat!   The million-pound elephant has just now, finally, woken up!”
chikoppi
Forum Full Member


Registered: 04/02/04
Posts: 1940
Location: N/A
 
Re:What Does Any of It Mean Anymore
Monday, July 10 2017 @ 01:54 PM CDT

bronco, I'm with you on a number of fronts, especially with respect to regulation of financial institutions. I'm dismayed that so many members of congress have lobbied for lifting of regulatory restrictions with Dodd-Frank barely in the rear-view.

Real wages are a problem. The economy is strong, but people don't feel it because, as you observe, the profit does not "trickle down" (I had hoped Kansas would have put the final nail into that myth, but I still hear it frequently). Corporations won't pay higher wages unless they absolutely have to, no matter how much money they have or how many tax breaks they are given. That's the lever I think needs adjustment.

“Ya, that idea is dildos.” Skwisgaar Skwigelf
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Dadai.2
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Registered: 09/09/08
Posts: 1732
Location: Frisco, Texas 😎 USA
 
Re:What Does Any of It Mean Anymore
Tuesday, July 11 2017 @ 09:38 AM CDT

This quote is attributed to Thomas Jefferson.

‘We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our selection between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude. If we run into such debts as that we must be taxed in our meat, in our drink, in our necessities and comforts, in our labors and in our amusements, for our callings and our creed, our people, must come to labor sixteen hours in the twenty-four, give earnings of fifteen of these to the government for their debts and daily expenses; and the sixteenth being insufficient to afford us bread, we must live.

‘We have not time to think, no means of calling the mis-managers to account, but be glad to obtain subsistence by hiring ourselves to rivet their chains on the necks of our fellow suffers. Our landholders, too, retaining indeed the title and stewardship of estates called theirs, but held really in trust for the treasury, must.be contented with penury, obscurity and exile, private fortunes are destroyed by public, as well as by private extravagance.

‘This is the tendency of all human governments. A departure from principle becomes a precedent for a second; that second for a third; and so on, till the bulk of society is reduced to mere automatons of misery, to have no sensibilities left, but for sinning and suffering. And the forehorse of this frightful team is public debt. Taxation follows that, and in its train, wretchedness and oppression.’
Thomas Jefferson. (1743-1826).

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