MacJams.com - Song: Red Willow 2 by Doadars Uncle

	said 1265 days ago (June 10th, 2006)
	Momentous undertaking.... with several great moments... not to say anything is not good. Keep refining this dude. It has the making of something even better... and find a way to stretch out your GB1... that's what I have and this can be made longer. A mini rock epic? cheers

Doadars Uncle	Doadars Uncle said 1264 days ago (June 11th, 2006)
	Momentous undertaking.... Thanks, Man! One of these days I'll pick up a more advanced program and see what happens. Hey, I really liked your last guitar piece! Thanks for the listen! --- We have a cat. Our fish has recently passed away...long live Swimmers! Check out my latest song called Capitalist's Drag

jiguma

jiguma said 1265 days ago (June 10th, 2006)

Original and interesting
Quite an undertaking here Doug! On my phones the left channel
seems to be a bit dominant, but not a big issue - there are some
strange buzzes at various pooints which don't really sound like they're
meant to be there. Otherwise, I think you've done a great job. It must
be hard to put something like this together - I find that the verse/
chorus/refrain structural elements make song writing easier, but you
seem to have left these behind to some extent, and come up with
something original and interesting. Doing this with Logic would have
given you the extra flexibility and tracks you seek. For GB1 this is
most impressive.
Neil

Check out my latest song called Lost In Translation (w Mike Watkins)

Doadars Uncle

Doadars Uncle said 1264 days ago (June 11th, 2006)

Original and interesting
Neil!

Thanks for stopping!

What is that buzz? I noticed it early on, then forgot about it. It could come
from the multiple layered effects, somewhere...

The hard part is creating continuity. It's like something Alimar wrote for my
first posting of this song, repeating a recognizable theme thoughout is
preferable. If I can gain space in my program, it would be nice to do this,
sometime.

Funny coincidence, I have some hearing loss in my left ear! I'll have to get
some advice before posting!

Thank again,
Doug

---
We have a cat. Our fish has recently passed away...long live Swimmers!

Check out my latest song called Capitalist's Drag

said 1265 days ago (June 11th, 2006)

Interesting Direction
I wasn't expecting the straight-forward Stones rock that came in about
2/3 through! (I'm listening to that part now) - very good.
The beginning had a mellow, unhurried, at points slightly menacing
quality that I enjoyed too, but in a dfferent way. I noticed the 'buzzes'
that jiguma mentioned, but I'll guess those were put in there
deliberately - I've done the same thing to add color/texture to some of
my music.
There seems to be some noise with the acoustic guitar recording (best
way I can describe it is that it sounds like air slowly be let out of a tire
- it's a quiet hiss) that you may want to try and eliminate by applying a
filter to the track in GB. Also, you may want to handle the hiss from its
possible source : check the cable between your mic and audio unit, to
see if it's laid in parallel to any of your electrical power cords. If it is,
either try and get it at least a couple of feet away from the line, or if
the cross, make them cross like this (perpendicular) rather than
running side-by-side.
An unbalanced cable (the kind that's used between a guitar and an
amp) may also introduce that kind of hiss between a mic and audio
unit (or between an audio unit and monitors - which is the experience I
had ... so I bought a couple of balanced cables).

	said 1265 days ago (June 11th, 2006)
	Interesting Direction Now that I read your bio, I probably didn't have to go into that explanation of balanced and unbalanced cables. :) --- Ars longa, vita brevis.

	said 1265 days ago (June 11th, 2006)
	Interesting Direction Now that I read your bio, I probably didn't have to go into that explanation of balanced and unbalanced cables. :) --- Ars longa, vita brevis.

Doadars Uncle	Doadars Uncle said 1264 days ago (June 11th, 2006)
	Interesting Direction Mungo, I'm happy to read your response! The buzzing is a mystery. And the hiss is probably a result of my low tech setup. If the stars are aligned properly, all is good! Thanks for the comments and advice! Doug --- We have a cat. Our fish has recently passed away...long live Swimmers! Check out my latest song called Capitalist's Drag

said 1264 days ago (June 11th, 2006)

Seconds Out...
If I understand you correctly, you cannot make your song any longer.
There is a little "arrow" that you can move so you can extend your song
length (at the top of the "beat ruler" measures bar, in the right hand
corner). You should be able to achieve a 20 minute song, even in
GarageBand 1. With GB 3, you can create a song 1999 measures long.
Previous versions offered 999 measures from the get-go. So find that
arrow!

I'm not sure the "buzzy" synth works. The cymal/drum combo are so
unvaried, I feel they need a little mix-up, until the rock beat comes in.

During the esoteric part, if the percussion hits were on the "and" and
not the beat, in places, could maintain a better rhythm.

Rhythm is very important throughtout a song, that your intro has such
a different "feel" it almost sounds like a different song from the ending
section. Adding that ending section to the beginning, (right after the
intro), then going into the obscure part may hold it tpgether better.

You have all the right stuff here, just the arrangement needs works.

Kudos for taking other's considerations.

Doadars Uncle

Doadars Uncle said 1263 days ago (June 12th, 2006)

Seconds Out...
Alimar!

Thanks for the much needed comments! I'll have to troubleshoot the "buzzy"
thing.

I like this project and appreciate the time you and others have taken to
contribute.

I will address these issues in a more organized way as time allows. Your
comments require time to pursue.

Thanks,
Doug

---
We have a cat. Our fish has recently passed away...long live Swimmers!

Check out my latest song called Capitalist's Drag

said 1264 days ago (June 11th, 2006)

Seconds Out...
If I understand you correctly, you cannot make your song any longer.
There is a little "arrow" that you can move so you can extend your song
length (at the top of the "beat ruler" measures bar, in the right hand
corner). You should be able to achieve a 20 minute song, even in
GarageBand 1. With GB 3, you can create a song 1999 measures long.
Previous versions offered 999 measures from the get-go. So find that
arrow!

I'm not sure the "buzzy" synth works. The cymal/drum combo are so
unvaried, I feel they need a little mix-up, until the rock beat comes in.

During the esoteric part, if the percussion hits were on the "and" and
not the beat, in places, could maintain a better rhythm.

Rhythm is very important throughtout a song, that your intro has such
a different "feel" it almost sounds like a different song from the ending
section. Adding that ending section to the beginning, (right after the
intro), then going into the obscure part may hold it tpgether better.

You have all the right stuff here, just the arrangement needs works.

Kudos for taking other's considerations.

	said 1264 days ago (June 11th, 2006)
	Oops... Sorry for the double post... happy trigger finger! --- "Global Warming Ain't So HOT!™"

said 1264 days ago (June 11th, 2006)

willow
first of all, i didn't listen to the willow 1, and almost did after hearing this, but then decided that maybe you would like the comments of someone who has not seen the metamorphosis of this track. So here is my view of willow 2, un-informed by having never listened to the original. i hope it provides some insight.

In general I am intrigued by the "soundscape" nature of the song, that is to say it transcends for me a simple instrumental jam and becomes more like a classically written piece taking one idea and trying three variations of it within a defined sonic landscape. I like the way that each movement flows into the next seamlessly yet they are very different. The effect is of walking by open air shops on Venice beach each with their own music playing and hearing each meld into the next as you walk by.

The intro is very sweet, eric satie like, like a music box playing tiny notes. the middle moves into a jazzy thing and the end picks up the rocking git fuzz and sublimates the beat a bit. I like the relationship between the drums and the git, how they move around the mix and compete with each other creates a nice tension.

I would like to see you play with feed back and noise a bit. Just get weird with the instruments and see what non traditional sounds they can make and try to capture some happy accidents. I feel like you%u2019re reaching for something new and breaking a lot of the rules that you have made for yourself and your music. If you do another pass at this, go even further.

If you want check out my tune "/song/20281"

here...

it hasn't gotten many comments. probably because it's a little loose in the playing , my powerbook g4 doesn't have enough RAM to counter the substantial latency issues with GB so it's a little mushy. it's kind of a jug band tune though so maybe that works. I was just having fun with the production mainly, but any thoughts would be great.

Doadars Uncle	Doadars Uncle said 1263 days ago (June 12th, 2006)
	willow Generous comments, Ray! Thanks for the great summary! I will keep working at it. There are tricks left in my brain. Lets see what happens! By the way, I left comments on your tune! Keep rockin' Doug --- We have a cat. Our fish has recently passed away...long live Swimmers! Check out my latest song called Capitalist's Drag

said 1264 days ago (June 11th, 2006)

the continuing saga
Yes, continuity is an issue. With its passing themes, it almost reminds
me of Ravel's orchestration of Mussorsky's "Pictures at an Exhibition"
-- although yours is a much more hip and rockin' collage. Your piece
has less structure or connective tissue than Pictures. Listen to Pictures
and see how it is done Classical style. Then listen to Emerson, Lake and
Palmer's rock version of Pictures at an Exhibition (that is the album
name). These might give you some ideas for variations, invention and
recapitulation.

	said 1264 days ago (June 11th, 2006)
	the continuing saga Mussorgsky is the proper spelling. --- http://www.schletty.com/song

Doadars Uncle	Doadars Uncle said 1263 days ago (June 12th, 2006)
	the continuing saga Richard, Thanks for another reissue of your insights. I'll check out "Pictures at an Exhibition!" Doug --- We have a cat. Our fish has recently passed away...long live Swimmers! Check out my latest song called Capitalist's Drag

composerclark

composerclark said 1262 days ago (June 13th, 2006)

thoughts...
Hi Doug, you asked for my thoughts, so here they are:

You have lots of ideas strung together here, including some that you
ddin't have last time, which I'm guessing would include the transitions
you mention. As before, there's nothing wrong with any of your ideas.

The challenges in this kind of music are usually in (a) deciding which
ideas to keep and which to jetison (to be possibly re-used in a different
piece), and (b) making convincing transitions between ideas.

Another concept to bear in mind is that almost all great music can be
considered to be 'organic' in some way. That is, there is a perceptible
connection between many of the different musical ideas in the
composition, as if they all grew from related seeds. A composition that
epitomizes this approach is Beethoven's fifth symphony, which uses
some variant of the famous opening rhythm (three shorts and a long)
in all four movements. But not all great music as as interconnected;
Mozart, for example, was one of the most melodically inventive
composers who ever lived, and different themes within a work of his
often have no obvious relationship. In spite of this, they somehow
'feel' like they belong together, though; it's a bit of a mystery as to
exactly how that works, but the point is that it doees.

Sometimes, a person can come up with different musical ideas that
have no relationship to one another and stick 'em all in a drawer, then,
surprisingly, find that some may fit into a completely different
composition that one is working on some time later.

Usually, in my experience, it doesn't work this way, though. Usually,
you start with some ideas, and then you have to deliberately
manufacture new ideas that grow out of or are otherwise related to
your main ideas in order to come up with a cohesive whole.

Jeepers, I REALLY need to wrap things up; I'm even putting myself to
sleep with this diatribe!

Okay, to cut to the chase: It doesn't seem to me that all your musical
ideas belong in the same piece. The beginning is good, except the
very first idea, which is a short tune played on acoustic guitar, is
introduced and then abandoned. It's a good idea! DON'T ABANDON
YOUR GOOD IDEAS! It would be worth revisiting this, and noodling
around a bit to see where else that tune could go. It also might be a
good idea to bring the tune back in varied form later, perhaps even
several times later, thereby giving this piece more thematic unity.

The rockin' guitar stuff you have at the end is fine stuff to be sure, but
I personally don't get why it's there. I'd encourage you to try to stick
with the the mood(s) that you have at the beginning and the middle,
and maybe even return to the mood of the beginning to end it. Almost
all music is basically ABA form; this doesn't mean YOU have to write
ABA form music, it just means that it seems to work pretty darn well,
so it might be worth trying.

Sorry for going on for so long!

Check out my latest song called Scarlet Nightfall

Doadars Uncle

Doadars Uncle said 1261 days ago (June 14th, 2006)

thoughts...
Wow! Thanks for the complete critique!

As much as I try, I just can't have it all. I will dissect this tune, over time. I
guess I don't know enough to come up with something ground breaking,
especially with such traditional modern sounds.

It's ok though. I think I will strip out the last segment. Or perhaps figure out
a way to introduce it in the beginning. I'm starting to see how these things
are organized. It's kind of like a thesis. The topic is introduced. Then the
details are expressed.

Perhaps I can find a way to musically prove that the final segment can fit!

In the mean time, I need to work on the introductions.

Both you and Alimar are suggesting specific structure. It takes me back to
"Music Apprec" all those years ago. But, that is where success has been
found through the centuries.

I will be more careful reading the great suggestions for this song, and rerip it
when I get a moment!

Thanks Clark!

Doug

---
We have a cat. Our fish has recently passed away...long live Swimmers!

Check out my latest song called Capitalist's Drag

	said 1235 days ago (July 10th, 2006)
	Yes... I like this a lot. Moody. Trippy. Ambient. Free. Epic. And absolutely no MSG! Your guitar work in the rock section is sonically satisfying. the mix is clean and balanced. Yes...I like this a lot. Be well friend!

Doadars Uncle

Doadars Uncle said 1234 days ago (July 11th, 2006)

Yes...
Thanks, man.

This is still a work in progress. Its become a pet of sorts. There are parts that
don't seem to fit. It may all, someday, fit!

I have been lately thinking about a re-arrangement.

There is something very grounding about that rock section. I like it too!

Thanks for stopping by! And welcome back Micheal!

---
We have a cat. Our fish has recently passed away...long live Swimmers!

Check out my latest song called Capitalist's Drag

	said 1040 days ago (January 21st, 2007)
	you know you have gotten some realy long comments but I,m all out of words so I'll say this was freakin great

Doadars Uncle	Doadars Uncle said 1035 days ago (January 26th, 2007)
	Thanks, man! Still, I believe this is a work in progress. It's one of those deals where I will have to put some genuine thought and effort into it! Thanks for the bolster! Doug --- We have a cat. Our fish has recently passed away...long live Swimmers! Check out my latest song called Capitalist's Drag

michael2

michael2 said 906 days ago (June 4th, 2007)

wow
all i can say is "dude, you are a total freak," and i mean that with ultimate respect. i'm loving all of your stuff at the moment. i am going to stop commenting on everything though as i have no constructive criticisms. little recording things that i don't know how to fix ,and that truthfully don't bother me in the slightest. i think you're song writing is awesome and wierd and really cool and unique. keep it up.

Check out my latest song called Behind Enemy Lines (w/Bud and Particle Dots)

Doadars Uncle	Doadars Uncle said 905 days ago (June 5th, 2007)
	You've got me all speechless Thanks for the support! I know a bit about music, but try not to use it as much as I could. I guess I want to keep it as close to inspired as I can. I don't know if that makes sense?!? Thanks Man! Doug --- May your shoes bah-doo... Check out my latest song called Capitalist's Drag

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