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Calchas
Forum Full Member


Registered: 03/20/09
Posts: 1405
Location: Salem, Oregon United States
 
Give peace a chance?
Tuesday, April 16 2019 @ 11:33 AM CDT

This used to be a happy thriving site. God I miss that...

Can we make peace once again? Can we allow diverse viewpoints without all the animosity?

How can we pride ourselves as participants in a Democracy if we want to shut out all dissenting discourse? Is such blatant totalitarianism what we want this site to be about?

So what if we disagree over this or that political issue, or over the nutritional value of tofu? This is a MUSIC site for crying out loud!

So much talent is staying away for what I feel compelled to regard as puerile reasons.

I have no problems listening to music or even collab-ing with folks espousing contrary viewpoints. You think Vic Holman and I agree on all political issues? Yet we have successfully collab-ed many times over the years.

I seriously doubt I am in full agreement with ANYONE here on ANY issue. So freakin' what? Let's make music together and snatch what happiness we can in these difficult times. If we want to, we CAN beat the odds and revive this wonderful site, this magical opportunity we used to share!

I am issuing a sincere, heartfelt challenge. To any I have offended in the past my humble apologies. Let's forgive and forget. Let's play together. Let's live a little!

And PLEASE let's not turn this into yet another hate thread. My hope is that most of us are better than that. I'm counting on it.

Bless you all... every last one of you!



“Thou hast made us for thyself, O Lord, and our heart is restless until it finds its rest in thee.” (St. Augustine)
Moses
Forum Chatty


Registered: 12/15/04
Posts: 61
Location: , Tennessee United States
 
Re:Give peace a chance?
Tuesday, April 16 2019 @ 02:20 PM CDT

What an absurd notion, shocking that you would even write this and submit it to us. I am offended, deeply, and demand an apology. Peace?? You want peace?? What you mean to say is you want us to be peaceful so you can take control.

Just kidding. Yes getting along with opposing viewpoints would be nice. Unfortunately a large portion of the world seems to be concluding that opposing viewpoints is equal to violence and thereby denotes an enemy. A lot of folks can't seem to understand that perfectly decent and honest people can reach conflicting positions. I really think technology has played a huge role in this. The degree to which life has been made so easy, led to complacency, led to incompetency and poor communication skills, and now many folks profess that anyone who disagrees with them must be the spawn of Hitler.

I've somewhat exaggerated, but anyway, I hear you and I'm with you. It's in the air! Growing dangerous to think for yourself.

Be careful sharing a moderate compassionate position Michael!

Quote by: Calchas
This used to be a happy thriving site. God I miss that...

Can we make peace once again? Can we allow diverse viewpoints without all the animosity?

How can we pride ourselves as participants in a Democracy if we want to shut out all dissenting discourse? Is such blatant totalitarianism what we want this site to be about?

So what if we disagree over this or that political issue, or over the nutritional value of tofu? This is a MUSIC site for crying out loud!

So much talent is staying away for what I feel compelled to regard as puerile reasons.

I have no problems listening to music or even collab-ing with folks espousing contrary viewpoints. You think Vic Holman and I agree on all political issues? Yet we have successfully collab-ed many times over the years.

I seriously doubt I am in full agreement with ANYONE here on ANY issue. So freakin' what? Let's make music together and snatch what happiness we can in these difficult times. If we want to, we CAN beat the odds and revive this wonderful site, this magical opportunity we used to share!

I am issuing a sincere, heartfelt challenge. To any I have offended in the past my humble apologies. Let's forgive and forget. Let's play together. Let's live a little!

And PLEASE let's not turn this into yet another hate thread. My hope is that most of us are better than that. I'm counting on it.

Bless you all... every last one of you!




"When those who are honestly mistaken learn the truth, they will either cease being mistaken or cease being honest."
Calchas
Forum Full Member


Registered: 03/20/09
Posts: 1405
Location: Salem, Oregon United States
 
Re:Give peace a chance?
Tuesday, April 16 2019 @ 02:37 PM CDT

Quote by: Moses
What an absurd notion, shocking that you would even write this and submit it to us. I am offended, deeply, and demand an apology. Peace?? You want peace?? What you mean to say is you want us to be peaceful so you can take control.

Just kidding. Yes getting along with opposing viewpoints would be nice. Unfortunately a large portion of the world seems to be concluding that opposing viewpoints is equal to violence and thereby denotes an enemy. A lot of folks can't seem to understand that perfectly decent and honest people can reach conflicting positions. I really think technology has played a huge role in this. The degree to which life has been made so easy, led to complacency, led to incompetency and poor communication skills, and now many folks profess that anyone who disagrees with them must be the spawn of Hitler.

I've somewhat exaggerated, but anyway, I hear you and I'm with you. It's in the air! Growing dangerous to think for yourself.

Be careful sharing a moderate compassionate position Michael!

Quote by: Calchas
This used to be a happy thriving site. God I miss that...

Can we make peace once again? Can we allow diverse viewpoints without all the animosity?

How can we pride ourselves as participants in a Democracy if we want to shut out all dissenting discourse? Is such blatant totalitarianism what we want this site to be about?

So what if we disagree over this or that political issue, or over the nutritional value of tofu? This is a MUSIC site for crying out loud!

So much talent is staying away for what I feel compelled to regard as puerile reasons.

I have no problems listening to music or even collab-ing with folks espousing contrary viewpoints. You think Vic Holman and I agree on all political issues? Yet we have successfully collab-ed many times over the years.

I seriously doubt I am in full agreement with ANYONE here on ANY issue. So freakin' what? Let's make music together and snatch what happiness we can in these difficult times. If we want to, we CAN beat the odds and revive this wonderful site, this magical opportunity we used to share!

I am issuing a sincere, heartfelt challenge. To any I have offended in the past my humble apologies. Let's forgive and forget. Let's play together. Let's live a little!

And PLEASE let's not turn this into yet another hate thread. My hope is that most of us are better than that. I'm counting on it.

Bless you all... every last one of you!






I deeply appreciate your intelligent, carefully crafted response friend. (And I wholly concur with your sentiments.)

I hope it will help set the tone!

I also hope I don't say anything stupid and ruin it all!

Take care man!


“Thou hast made us for thyself, O Lord, and our heart is restless until it finds its rest in thee.” (St. Augustine)
RichardSchletty
Forum Full Member


Registered: 10/01/08
Posts: 172
Location: Saint Paul, MN United States
 
Re:Give peace a chance?
Tuesday, April 16 2019 @ 03:48 PM CDT

Well stated, Mike! I left the scene around 2010 due to rancor, but also due to the exigencies of daily work life and family life.

However, since 2014, I have built two music websites as safe havens for Christian music artists, faith formation catechists and listeners. One of them is modeled after MacJams but has hardly any interaction among the nearly 1000 members that have signed up for free. Lots of views but few comments or user-generated stories or forum topics.

I am constantly amazed how MacJams built a thriving community within weeks of launching in January of 2004. Those first 10 years were awesome. I learned how to collaborate to create songs. My voice and guitar recording skills went from 0 to 55 in just a few short years. I started with GarageBand, then graduated to Logic Pro and now use it every week to create music for commercial, church and personal projects. Audio sequencing was my springboard into videography and video post production with Adobe Premiere and Final Cut Pro. I credit the MacJams community for being the genesis of my A/V career.

A few of my relationships with MacJammers have endured to this day as we still work on projects together.

My sadness has been the crustiness of the MJ website infrastructure (especially the broken MP3 player and on-site search module).

And as you pointed out, the hyper-political, exclusionary tone in the forum channels has caused many to leave the community.

Mike, I hope your call to civility and inclusiveness helps reboot MacJams. I'll drop in soon to test the waters.

Blessed holy days and happy holidays to all.

Richard Schletty
Calchas
Forum Full Member


Registered: 03/20/09
Posts: 1405
Location: Salem, Oregon United States
 
Re:Give peace a chance?
Tuesday, April 16 2019 @ 03:54 PM CDT

Quote by: RichardSchletty
Well stated, Mike! I left the scene around 2010 due to rancor, but also due to the exigencies of daily work life and family life.

However, since 2014, I have built two music websites as safe havens for Christian music artists, faith formation catechists and listeners. One of them is modeled after MacJams but has hardly any interaction among the nearly 1000 members that have signed up for free. Lots of views but few comments or user-generated stories or forum topics.

I am constantly amazed how MacJams built a thriving community within weeks of launching in January of 2004. Those first 10 years were awesome. I learned how to collaborate to create songs. My voice and guitar recording skills went from 0 to 55 in just a few short years. I started with GarageBand, then graduated to Logic Pro and now use it every week to create music for commercial, church and personal projects. Audio sequencing was my springboard into videography and video post production with Adobe Premiere and Final Cut Pro. I credit the MacJams community for being the genesis of my A/V career.

A few of my relationships with MacJammers have endured to this day as we still work on projects together.

My sadness has been the crustiness of the MJ website infrastructure (especially the broken MP3 player and on-site search module).

And as you pointed out, the hyper-political, exclusionary tone in the forum channels has caused many to leave the community.

Mike, I hope your call to civility and inclusiveness helps reboot MacJams. I'll drop in soon to test the waters.

Blessed holy days and happy holidays to all.

Richard Schletty



GLORY DAYS INDEED!

What are the addresses of your two web-sites Rich?

Oh, and btw, heart-felt thanks for clocking in old friend!

“Thou hast made us for thyself, O Lord, and our heart is restless until it finds its rest in thee.” (St. Augustine)
Calchas
Forum Full Member


Registered: 03/20/09
Posts: 1405
Location: Salem, Oregon United States
 
Re:Give peace a chance?
Tuesday, April 16 2019 @ 03:54 PM CDT

OOOOOPS...

Double post!

:-(

“Thou hast made us for thyself, O Lord, and our heart is restless until it finds its rest in thee.” (St. Augustine)
Feter
Forum Full Member


Registered: 07/03/06
Posts: 4463
Location: , Nowhere !
 
Re:Give peace a chance?
Tuesday, April 16 2019 @ 06:29 PM CDT

I think the solution is easy , I came to MJ through Richard Scheltty in 06
and it was NOT that easy in every aspect. YET ... communication , participating
spending real time to reach out as much as i can was part of my successful
story there . and I think it was sign of the time people were so ready for this
and they started to do more of 'collaboration' . that encouraged me more and
more . appreciate was the motto .. any technical critic or any help needed was
private issue or done in a very full respectful way .. with in 6 months with more
positivity with in every one .. MJ built its reputation .. for those thrive to go back
to that time .. I think fight all the negative relics in the status quo .. build the circle
again .. build the circle of friends that would value anything you put on
the table go places with MJers those might not do have your style but happy to participate..
Me , myself is not looking back to that ..due to where I am in life ..but I d love to
hear see listen to my friends Mjers projects .. warm my heart to hear a song that
has 2,4 collaborators just like before .. human communication ..is how to defeat
that stagnation .. my two cents ...love and respect to all and I miss you all ...

Feter

«Blues is easy to play, but not to feel » (Jimi Hendrix)
MikeRobinson
Forum Full Member


Registered: 08/29/11
Posts: 962
Location: Chattanooga, TN United States
 
Re:Give peace a chance?
Tuesday, April 16 2019 @ 06:38 PM CDT

Well, three things come to mind:
  1. Maybe, “all of us Internet people” have lately been too-much encouraged to take too-many things too-damned seriously.   As though a dissenting opinion amounted to the end of the world as we know it.   (And, in saying this, I am not speaking specifically of MJ.   I suggest that it might be a more-general trend, perhaps rooted in crowd psychology.
  2. “The rules of Debate.”   They were drilled into us in appropriate college classes, and they exist for a reason.
  3. “I disapprove of what you say, sir, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”   Hey, where exactly did that civility disappear to?
Maybe we all need to take a lesson or at least a reminder from this.   Because I frankly think that it is too-easy to become too emotionally invested in the things that we encounter on-line ... such that we completely forget the civilities that would rule any face-to-face encounter.   (And, dare I suggest, are we being manipulated?)   “Forewarned is forearmed.”   And, let us all bear in mind that “we live in interesting times.”
Calchas
Forum Full Member


Registered: 03/20/09
Posts: 1405
Location: Salem, Oregon United States
 
Re:Give peace a chance?
Tuesday, April 16 2019 @ 06:47 PM CDT

Quote by: MikeRobinson
Well, three things come to mind:
  1. Maybe, “all of us Internet people” have lately been too-much encouraged to take too-many things too-damned seriously.   As though a dissenting opinion amounted to the end of the world as we know it.   (And, in saying this, I am not speaking specifically of MJ.   I suggest that it might be a more-general trend, perhaps rooted in crowd psychology.
  2. “The rules of Debate.”   They were drilled into us in appropriate college classes, and they exist for a reason.
  3. “I disapprove of what you say, sir, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”   Hey, where exactly did that civility disappear to?
Maybe we all need to take a lesson or at least a reminder from this.   Because I frankly think that it is too-easy to become too emotionally invested in the things that we encounter on-line ... such that we completely forget the civilities that would rule any face-to-face encounter.   (And, dare I suggest, are we being manipulated?)   “Forewarned is forearmed.”   And, let us all bear in mind that “we live in interesting times.”



Very well said!

“Thou hast made us for thyself, O Lord, and our heart is restless until it finds its rest in thee.” (St. Augustine)
 
Calchas
Forum Full Member


Registered: 03/20/09
Posts: 1405
Location: Salem, Oregon United States
 
Re:Give peace a chance?
Tuesday, April 16 2019 @ 07:21 PM CDT

Quote by: Feter
I think the solution is easy , I came to MJ through Richard Scheltty in 06
and it was NOT that easy in every aspect. YET ... communication , participating
spending real time to reach out as much as i can was part of my successful
story there . and I think it was sign of the time people were so ready for this
and they started to do more of 'collaboration' . that encouraged me more and
more . appreciate was the motto .. any technical critic or any help needed was
private issue or done in a very full respectful way .. with in 6 months with more
positivity with in every one .. MJ built its reputation .. for those thrive to go back
to that time .. I think fight all the negative relics in the status quo .. build the circle
again .. build the circle of friends that would value anything you put on
the table go places with MJers those might not do have your style but happy to participate..
Me , myself is not looking back to that ..due to where I am in life ..but I d love to
hear see listen to my friends Mjers projects .. warm my heart to hear a song that
has 2,4 collaborators just like before .. human communication ..is how to defeat
that stagnation .. my two cents ...love and respect to all and I miss you all ...

Feter



Feter is right. The solution IS, in fact, "easy."

The problem seems to be that our hearts have become hardened to a greater or lesser degree.

Many of us have become jaded because of less-than-civil interactions over the years.

Some have understandably given up.

Well who here doesn't believe in forgiveness? For those of us who do...

How about let's agreeing to forgive and forget?

Is it really so impossible?

It's time MJs lambs and lions lay down together in peace and mutual respect.

CO-EXIST!

“Thou hast made us for thyself, O Lord, and our heart is restless until it finds its rest in thee.” (St. Augustine)