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J.A.Stewart
Forum Full Member


Registered: 11/13/04
Posts: 4604
Location: Somewhere In Time, USA
 
Loudness Penalty
Friday, May 18 2018 @ 11:00 AM CDT

Curious about how various streaming services will alter the loudness of your musical uploads — and how you might avoid that? Mastering engineer Ian Shepherd has teamed up with MeterPlugs to create a FREE, secure, drag-and-drop website tool to analyze and report on how your tune will be affected by various streaming sites: iTunes, Spotify, YouTube, Pandora and TIDAL.

Check out the video introduction:
http://productionadvice.co.uk/loudness-penalty/

The Loudness Penalty website:
http://www.loudnesspenalty.com/

MY LATEST: A demo version of my Work-In-Progress DAILY GRIND
Daugrin
Forum Full Member


Registered: 03/24/09
Posts: 1169
Location: , Extraverse
 
Re:Loudness Penalty
Friday, May 18 2018 @ 03:45 PM CDT

Quote by: J.A.Stewart
Curious about how various streaming services will alter the loudness of your musical uploads — and how you might avoid that? Mastering engineer Ian Shepherd has teamed up with MeterPlugs to create a FREE, secure, drag-and-drop website tool to analyze and report on how your tune will be affected by various streaming sites: iTunes, Spotify, YouTube, Pandora and TIDAL.

Check out the video introduction:
http://productionadvice.co.uk/loudness-penalty/

The Loudness Penalty website:
http://www.loudnesspenalty.com/



Now we return to the loudness wars? Rant alert!
The issue at the heart of rampant loudness is industry standard Red Book Compression. Audio innovation always moves away from Red Book specs, but, a service will eventually apply Red Book to every product before the consumer takes possession.
In your DAW at home is some great music, upload that music to a service, like Macjams, Itunes or Spotify, and BAM! Red Book compression jerks out the bottom an shuffles the low/upper mids in the effort to conservation hard drive space.
Neil Young's Pono platform sounds great. No Red Book. Flak sounds great. No Red Book. Lose less platforms exist for many applications. There is no longer a computer memory shortage, Red Book should be forsaken. It's not!
Evidence shows the music industry will not change, not even when compelled to by a failing business model. CDs degrade. All industrial CDs are flawed by Red Book.
Since '78 the loudness issue raged. The problem is industrial compression applied to previously mastered music, this compression has always been the problem with reproducing analog music in the digital age.
The first fully digital LP was "Bop 'till You Drop" by Ry Cooder. Give it a listen, and next try for reference any 60s or 70s LP from Atlantic or Columbia records. Or try Cooder's "Jazz" lp for that matter it's an under appreciated classic. Educate your ears. If you are 30 years old or younger chances are you have never heard what true high fidelity even sounds like...

Daug
Parichayaka
Forum Full Member


Registered: 01/10/06
Posts: 154
Location: New York, New York USA
 
Re:Loudness Penalty
Friday, May 18 2018 @ 04:00 PM CDT

Quote by: J.A.Stewart
Curious about how various streaming services will alter the loudness of your musical uploads — and how you might avoid that? Mastering engineer Ian Shepherd has teamed up with MeterPlugs to create a FREE, secure, drag-and-drop website tool to analyze and report on how your tune will be affected by various streaming sites: iTunes, Spotify, YouTube, Pandora and TIDAL.

Check out the video introduction:
http://productionadvice.co.uk/loudness-penalty/

The Loudness Penalty website:
http://www.loudnesspenalty.com/



Interesting. Thanks for the links!
SmokeyVW
Forum Full Member


Registered: 06/13/06
Posts: 7129
Location: N/A
 
Re:Loudness Penalty
Friday, May 18 2018 @ 07:56 PM CDT

pretty sure MacJams does not modify your uploaded songs.
FEEL
Forum Full Member


Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 2394
Location: N/A
 
Re:Loudness Penalty
Sunday, May 20 2018 @ 04:38 PM CDT

Melda Productions has several free plugins including a Loudness Analyzer with several presets.

https://www.meldaproduction.com/product/keyword?keyword=free
FEEL
Forum Full Member


Registered: 05/15/05
Posts: 2394
Location: N/A
 
Re:Loudness Penalty
Sunday, May 20 2018 @ 04:38 PM CDT

double whammy
MikeRobinson
Forum Full Member


Registered: 08/29/11
Posts: 820
Location: Chattanooga, TN United States
 
Re:Loudness Penalty
Tuesday, May 22 2018 @ 07:15 AM CDT

I’ve been told – by enough people that I think it’s true – that music today is specifically mixed to sound “good” (sic ...) on MP3, in earbuds.   A quick look at the waveform display for any track on SoundCloud says it all:   it looks like a snake that got run over by a car ... the entire extent is filled to the margins.   To my ears, that’s not “loudness.”   That’s a mistake.

I also remember watching a video about mixing songs (today), and the presenter at one point pulled out a set of earbuds and said, “now, let’s listen to it.”   It is very sad to think that music has degenerated to this, but I can’t deny that it has really happened.

Although I suppose that it’s really not that far different from what the Beatles did at Abbey Road, dialing-in the “AM Radio filter” and listening to their tracks on an actual speaker lifted from a car.
J.A.Stewart
Forum Full Member


Registered: 11/13/04
Posts: 4604
Location: Somewhere In Time, USA
 
Re:Loudness Penalty
Thursday, May 24 2018 @ 11:15 AM CDT

Quote by: MikeRobinson
I’ve been told – by enough people that I think it’s true – that music today is specifically mixed to sound “good” (sic ...) on MP3, in earbuds.   A quick look at the waveform display for any track on SoundCloud says it all:   it looks like a snake that got run over by a car ... the entire extent is filled to the margins.   To my ears, that’s not “loudness.”   That’s a mistake.

I also remember watching a video about mixing songs (today), and the presenter at one point pulled out a set of earbuds and said, “now, let’s listen to it.”   It is very sad to think that music has degenerated to this, but I can’t deny that it has really happened.

Although I suppose that it’s really not that far different from what the Beatles did at Abbey Road, dialing-in the “AM Radio filter” and listening to their tracks on an actual speaker lifted from a car.



Yup, things have certainly changed — and not always for the better. But to be clear, Ian Shepherd is one of the most vocal advocates AGAINST loudness and this tool is not designed to increase loudness, but rather to avoid the potential degradation of your music by streaming services' algorithms.

One of the interesting facts I stumbled upon is that when you convert an aiff or wav file to an mp3, the conversion algorithm actually boosts the loudness level by 1.0 to 1.5 dbs or so — potentially making matters even worse when you upload a file to a site that re-encodes your file.

MY LATEST: A demo version of my Work-In-Progress DAILY GRIND
 
MikeRobinson
Forum Full Member


Registered: 08/29/11
Posts: 820
Location: Chattanooga, TN United States
 
Re:Loudness Penalty
Wednesday, May 30 2018 @ 08:11 AM CDT

MP3 is a very "lossy" compression algorithm, designed above all else to produce a small file-size at a time when gigabyte memory chips weren't yet available.   As you say, it seems to purposely spread the waveform out across the entire gamut of available numbers in order to make the compression artifacts less noticeable (sic ...).   The frequency profile of earbuds is also engineered to mask the artifacts.

Lack of fidelity is one of the major reasons why I don’t purchase downloaded music; my music library is physical.

If the only thing you can think of to do with your song is to squash the sucker flat, you’re not going to tickle my ear.   That’s boring ... a cop-out.   If you want to capture my attention, include a passage in your song that is quiet, but clear.   Tell the drummer to stop “banging on the bongos like a chim-pan-zee” for just a little while.   Surprise me.   In a world stuffed with boring-but-edible hamburgers, crack open a cookbook.   A good song can be anything.